A Very Interesting Comment from a GangWar.com Reader
I'd like to add a couple of comments which you are free to publish, but please do not attribute me or use my name. My information is based on my field work counseling black gangs in South Los Angeles in the 1990s.
1. Of course there are many legends of gang history. We also know that until recently, most street gangs of young people settled their disputes not by fighting with guns but by the use of knives, chains or boards. In fact, the agreements were often almost courtly:
Representatives would offer a choice, enemies would choose "boards" for example, and at a designated time, two groups of representatives would meet to do combat and actually form 2 fighting lines. Then they would fight with boards, fists and feet.
This style persisted and was popular in South LA into the late 60s at least. According to several young men I spoke to, a change occurred in one memorable event:
"We used to go swimming in the Coliseum Swimming Pool". One day in 1972, there was a kid there who was messing around, dunking people and stuff like that. The lifeguard kept warning him and finally kicked him out. This guy went home, got a gun, came back and blew the lifeguard away. That was what made guns popular and acceptable."
2. A popular misunderstanding about gang members is the belief that they all sell drugs. Most do not, although almost all have participated in sales at least a few times. Most Crips and Bloods "don't do much of anything", as gang members told me many times. "They shoot pool or hang around, they watch TV or play basketball, or if they have a woman they lay up with her. Some of them even have jobs. But not many actually sell drugs. Maybe 10% do."
3. Almost everyone including scholars exaggerate the existence or complexity of an individual gang structure. In reality, there is hardly ever much to speak of. A typical South LA crew or set might have 20 members. They will range in age from about 13 to 25. The activities of most of them can be found described in #2 above. Most people including scholars seem to think the Crips, Bloods, Brims or any gang is structured in the same way as the United States Army, with a true hierarchy expressed in a number of levels between the equivalent of buck private and 5 star general.
Actually, there is neither hierarchy nor levels except in a general, nebulous way determined by many factors: age, reputation, size and weight, family and relatives, social skills, fighting ability, courage, daring, number of arrests, prison time served, and so forth, including capacity for beer, wine and liquor as well as drugs.
You can imagine what a gang member of high status might be like:
perhaps tall, muscular, smart in practical ways, an excellent fighter with great daring and courage, possibly known (or believed) to have killed a cop with a tire arm during a struggle; someone women adore, someone who always has pretty girlfriends, a good dancer, a good sense of humor, and so forth.
At any rate, it's usually by composition of these criteria that a gang member gains status and respect, and not because he's a "Crips leader".
Of course, having lots of money and a fancy car from proceeds of selling rock can have this effect of local fame and stardom, too. It's also true that members of various gangs may form associations or agreements, but not in any way resembling agreements between nations or formal organizations. Actual gang relationships can dissolve quickly or be misunderstood by members or outsiders.
4. Disputes and causes of blood revenge are generally or sometimes exclusively believed to be over matters of drug sales, murder or other obviously compelling reasons. This generalization is not valid, although these causes are often present. More likely, though, the cause of a "beef" is:
A. Thinking or hearing that someone looked at, "dissed" or "messed with" your girlfriend at a party.
B. Thinking someone challenged or insulted you as by looking you in the eye a fraction of a second too long.
C. Someone "trespassing" in your gang turf.
These are precipitating incidents and almost always escalate through a series of events. For example, an aggrieved party informs others he will seek revenge; then the accused party may send word out that he will harm the person accusing him; people related to either of these main combatants may be challenged, insulted or harmed; people may lay in wait to harm others, or set traps, until finally:
A. (Most often) The two combatants meet by chance, running into each other, and start shooting.
B. A driveby or other ambush.
5. The most accurate way to explain why kids join gangs is to understand that they feel a void in themselves and their lives. They feel something of aching importance is missing. They believe they are not good enough in any way, that they have no status or bearing or membership in anything at all, and indeed that they are 100% disenfranchised from society and the world. They believe they belong to nothing: they are not even citizens. Many believe they are close to being like objects: like trash, or used or damaged goods. Again, this self-perception is unbearable, so a kid will seek to fill the void he feels in himself. By joining a gang he believes he becomes something, is now part of a tradition, has power and status, has friends and access to sex and liquor and drugs, and even has enemies.
Steve Comments: Please feel free to post a comment if you agree or disagree, that's fine, just keep it civil. S/
1. Of course there are many legends of gang history. We also know that until recently, most street gangs of young people settled their disputes not by fighting with guns but by the use of knives, chains or boards. In fact, the agreements were often almost courtly:
Representatives would offer a choice, enemies would choose "boards" for example, and at a designated time, two groups of representatives would meet to do combat and actually form 2 fighting lines. Then they would fight with boards, fists and feet.
This style persisted and was popular in South LA into the late 60s at least. According to several young men I spoke to, a change occurred in one memorable event:
"We used to go swimming in the Coliseum Swimming Pool". One day in 1972, there was a kid there who was messing around, dunking people and stuff like that. The lifeguard kept warning him and finally kicked him out. This guy went home, got a gun, came back and blew the lifeguard away. That was what made guns popular and acceptable."
2. A popular misunderstanding about gang members is the belief that they all sell drugs. Most do not, although almost all have participated in sales at least a few times. Most Crips and Bloods "don't do much of anything", as gang members told me many times. "They shoot pool or hang around, they watch TV or play basketball, or if they have a woman they lay up with her. Some of them even have jobs. But not many actually sell drugs. Maybe 10% do."
3. Almost everyone including scholars exaggerate the existence or complexity of an individual gang structure. In reality, there is hardly ever much to speak of. A typical South LA crew or set might have 20 members. They will range in age from about 13 to 25. The activities of most of them can be found described in #2 above. Most people including scholars seem to think the Crips, Bloods, Brims or any gang is structured in the same way as the United States Army, with a true hierarchy expressed in a number of levels between the equivalent of buck private and 5 star general.
Actually, there is neither hierarchy nor levels except in a general, nebulous way determined by many factors: age, reputation, size and weight, family and relatives, social skills, fighting ability, courage, daring, number of arrests, prison time served, and so forth, including capacity for beer, wine and liquor as well as drugs.
You can imagine what a gang member of high status might be like:
perhaps tall, muscular, smart in practical ways, an excellent fighter with great daring and courage, possibly known (or believed) to have killed a cop with a tire arm during a struggle; someone women adore, someone who always has pretty girlfriends, a good dancer, a good sense of humor, and so forth.
At any rate, it's usually by composition of these criteria that a gang member gains status and respect, and not because he's a "Crips leader".
Of course, having lots of money and a fancy car from proceeds of selling rock can have this effect of local fame and stardom, too. It's also true that members of various gangs may form associations or agreements, but not in any way resembling agreements between nations or formal organizations. Actual gang relationships can dissolve quickly or be misunderstood by members or outsiders.
4. Disputes and causes of blood revenge are generally or sometimes exclusively believed to be over matters of drug sales, murder or other obviously compelling reasons. This generalization is not valid, although these causes are often present. More likely, though, the cause of a "beef" is:
A. Thinking or hearing that someone looked at, "dissed" or "messed with" your girlfriend at a party.
B. Thinking someone challenged or insulted you as by looking you in the eye a fraction of a second too long.
C. Someone "trespassing" in your gang turf.
These are precipitating incidents and almost always escalate through a series of events. For example, an aggrieved party informs others he will seek revenge; then the accused party may send word out that he will harm the person accusing him; people related to either of these main combatants may be challenged, insulted or harmed; people may lay in wait to harm others, or set traps, until finally:
A. (Most often) The two combatants meet by chance, running into each other, and start shooting.
B. A driveby or other ambush.
5. The most accurate way to explain why kids join gangs is to understand that they feel a void in themselves and their lives. They feel something of aching importance is missing. They believe they are not good enough in any way, that they have no status or bearing or membership in anything at all, and indeed that they are 100% disenfranchised from society and the world. They believe they belong to nothing: they are not even citizens. Many believe they are close to being like objects: like trash, or used or damaged goods. Again, this self-perception is unbearable, so a kid will seek to fill the void he feels in himself. By joining a gang he believes he becomes something, is now part of a tradition, has power and status, has friends and access to sex and liquor and drugs, and even has enemies.
Steve Comments: Please feel free to post a comment if you agree or disagree, that's fine, just keep it civil. S/
posted by Steve Nawojczyk at
6:45 AM
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